AFC West Denver Broncos

[Hoppy]

Hey Mac look at the film on this and they show both INT's that manning threw last Sunday. Notice the receiver broke to the left where there was no coverage on the first one. Goal line plats most are read plays and if the QB reads one thing and the receiver reads another bad things happen. Peyton even says we have to get on the same page. Looking at this clearly the receiver read the play right and Manning threw into the coverage. The second INT was a good pass just late. He would have made that same pass 2 years ago with not as much air and on time. He never looked the safety off. These are things Manning would do in his sleep 2 years ago. Now he's just living on his rep. And not doing a good job of that.
Andrew Mason http://t.co/ei8U4XHOAE
Kub said that the 3 TE set was very effective. If so why didn't they stay with it. Sounds like smells like smoke. So far Jackson is playing his but off in this contract year

[OnlyInUtah]

We are trying to run out of the pistol the backs are being meet in the backfield The defense is teeing off on the runner only because he will be the only one who dare to carry the ball. I posted this earlier and it's the one article that tell the true story and not step around the eggshell Named Manning

http://t.co/EVQlsLM46V

under offense the writer gives you his and my belief of what's wrong with this offense. Yes the line has problems I have said this but the QB has to help the line I 've also said that. As I will not ever change my feelings on this and you guys will one day I'm sure I will keep rooting for him but I will be the one you hear screaming Bench the bum when the Broncos start playing good teams B/C we haven't played a good one yet.

This writer is a hack, Hop.

[OnlyInUtah]

Not really a big deal that Pats lost their LT for the year The beat goes on
http://t.co/DoNQQIwI1f

Because they have good lineman and a deep bench.

[OnlyInUtah]

Hop? Nobody is defending Manning. We are just pointing out Oz isn't starter quality and our line and TE's are awful. You want to throw the season away because of your hatred of Manning.....you put in Oz right now and we will look like the Browns immediately. He's another bust despite what he does against 2nd and third stringers in preseason. We'll go right into rebuilding mode.

[OnlyInUtah]

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-whats-wrong-with-the-denver-broncos-offense.html/?ref=YF

You're beating that dead horse to smithereens Hop.

The o-line get the blame? they were brought here to run the zone blocking scheme. Not pass block for a offense that could never run the ball sense the Broncos installed it. Mannings Pistol will never work without a QB who can take off with the ball. A QB that can run will keep the defense honest. The pistol is good for the passing game for Peyton also again because he can't run forward how will he run backwards. so he doesn't give the back a head start and they are usually hit in the backfield. They blamed M.Ball for getting hit behind the line now CJ is getting hit behind the line so is Hillman. Blame the line find other ways that we can blame everyone but the great Peyton Manning. One day I will stand up and give you and Big mac a Bronco salute when you come over to the light and away from the orange colored glasses.I'm a fan and I want a SB especially sense the Cubs beat my Cardinals

Nobody picked up Ball because he sucks.

[Bigmac1979]

Hey Mac look at the film on this and they show both INT's that manning threw last Sunday. Notice the receiver broke to the left where there was no coverage on the first one. Goal line plats most are read plays and if the QB reads one thing and the receiver reads another bad things happen. Peyton even says we have to get on the same page. Looking at this clearly the receiver read the play right and Manning threw into the coverage. The second INT was a good pass just late. He would have made that same pass 2 years ago with not as much air and on time. He never looked the safety off. These are things Manning would do in his sleep 2 years ago. Now he's just living on his rep. And not doing a good job of that.
Andrew Mason http://t.co/ei8U4XHOAE
Kub said that the 3 TE set was very effective. If so why didn't they stay with it. Sounds like smells like smoke. So far Jackson is playing his but off in this contract year

I'm not trying to defend Manning...he looks almost as cooked to me as he does to you...where we mostly differ is whether the rest of the team (mostly the line) can improve and evolve around Manning's deficiencies, as I 1) don't want to waste a #1 defense, 2) am skeptical that the defense will stay intact in the offseason, and 3) don't trust a first year QB (especially one that hasn't really provided many WOW moments anyway) to lead a #1 defense to the playoffs...Trust me, I'm not feeling that optimistic, but I'm not throwing in the towel.

[OnlyInUtah]

Agreed Eron. That's what I'm saying as well. Oz has never shown the ability to read progressions. He only does well on scripted plays. When they break down he gets that "deer in the headlights" look and starts throwing to the other team. And Oz is no Wilson when it comes to scrambling. He resembles a giraffe.

[Hoppy]

Hop? Nobody is defending Manning. We are just pointing out Oz isn't starter quality and our line and TE's are awful. You want to throw the season away because of your hatred of Manning.....you put in Oz right now and we will look like the Browns immediately. He's another bust despite what he does against 2nd and third stringers in preseason. We'll go right into rebuilding mode.

You don't know that it's your opinion because we have never seen him play at the stage he's at now. He could be the biggest bust in the league or he could be the next coming of Super Joe Montana. Now is the time to find out before we have to be stuck with him and rebuild next year. That's what I'm saying nobody knows if he can play really but with this defense that makes up for Manning's f-ups they can make up for Brock's f-ups. We would be in better shape then next season when we don't have this defense to play with. Bottom of the division next season if he can't play.

[Hoppy]

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-whats-wrong-with-the-denver-broncos-offense.html/?ref=YF

You're beating that dead horse to smithereens Hop.

The o-line get the blame? they were brought here to run the zone blocking scheme. Not pass block for a offense that could never run the ball sense the Broncos installed it. Mannings Pistol will never work without a QB who can take off with the ball. A QB that can run will keep the defense honest. The pistol is good for the passing game for Peyton also again because he can't run forward how will he run backwards. so he doesn't give the back a head start and they are usually hit in the backfield. They blamed M.Ball for getting hit behind the line now CJ is getting hit behind the line so is Hillman. Blame the line find other ways that we can blame everyone but the great Peyton Manning. One day I will stand up and give you and Big mac a Bronco salute when you come over to the light and away from the orange colored glasses.I'm a fan and I want a SB especially sense the Cubs beat my Cardinals

Nobody picked up Ball because he sucks.

The scheme sucks the pistol without the right ammo misfires. Is CJ a good back the 2.6 average says no. He suck? the 2.6h avg. says yes and he's the starter. Must be the backs no the line no the TE's no the WR's . Put the blame on the one who touches the ball every play and not the center.

[Hoppy]

Hey Mac look at the film on this and they show both INT's that manning threw last Sunday. Notice the receiver broke to the left where there was no coverage on the first one. Goal line plats most are read plays and if the QB reads one thing and the receiver reads another bad things happen. Peyton even says we have to get on the same page. Looking at this clearly the receiver read the play right and Manning threw into the coverage. The second INT was a good pass just late. He would have made that same pass 2 years ago with not as much air and on time. He never looked the safety off. These are things Manning would do in his sleep 2 years ago. Now he's just living on his rep. And not doing a good job of that.
Andrew Mason http://t.co/ei8U4XHOAE
Kub said that the 3 TE set was very effective. If so why didn't they stay with it. Sounds like smells like smoke. So far Jackson is playing his but off in this contract year

I'm not trying to defend Manning...he looks almost as cooked to me as he does to you...where we mostly differ is whether the rest of the team (mostly the line) can improve and evolve around Manning's deficiencies, as I 1) don't want to waste a #1 defense, 2) am skeptical that the defense will stay intact in the offseason, and 3) don't trust a first year QB (especially one that hasn't really provided many WOW moments anyway) to lead a #1 defense to the playoffs...Trust me, I'm not feeling that optimistic, but I'm not throwing in the towel.

I understand your points but Brock will be a first year starter next season what's the difference. He can still pick Mannings mind if you do it this season

[Bigmac1979]

We are trying to run out of the pistol the backs are being meet in the backfield The defense is teeing off on the runner only because he will be the only one who dare to carry the ball. I posted this earlier and it's the one article that tell the true story and not step around the eggshell Named Manning

http://t.co/EVQlsLM46V

under offense the writer gives you his and my belief of what's wrong with this offense. Yes the line has problems I have said this but the QB has to help the line I 've also said that. As I will not ever change my feelings on this and you guys will one day I'm sure I will keep rooting for him but I will be the one you hear screaming Bench the bum when the Broncos start playing good teams B/C we haven't played a good one yet.

In that article, the author says this: "Our running game could be fine. Do you know why it isn't fine? It's running out of the pistol. That's what isn't fine!" He seems to putting the lion's share of blame on the scheme, as if running out of shotgun or pistol without a running QB is the reason our, or anyone's, running game fails. But in the first two games (can't find data since then), Denver gained 3.4 yards per carry from the shotgun formation, but only 2.6 yards from under center...that's almost a yard difference. That result extends to last year, when Denver gained 4.9 yards running out of the gun, but only 3.2 yards from under center (1.7 yards less per carry!!!). In the three games since Denver has gone full Pistol/Gun, they are rushing at 3.7 yards per carry...even if you remove Hillman's 72 yard scamper, the Pistol has the same YPC as Denver had from under center: 2.6.

[OnlyInUtah]

Hey Mac look at the film on this and they show both INT's that manning threw last Sunday. Notice the receiver broke to the left where there was no coverage on the first one. Goal line plats most are read plays and if the QB reads one thing and the receiver reads another bad things happen. Peyton even says we have to get on the same page. Looking at this clearly the receiver read the play right and Manning threw into the coverage. The second INT was a good pass just late. He would have made that same pass 2 years ago with not as much air and on time. He never looked the safety off. These are things Manning would do in his sleep 2 years ago. Now he's just living on his rep. And not doing a good job of that.
Andrew Mason http://t.co/ei8U4XHOAE
Kub said that the 3 TE set was very effective. If so why didn't they stay with it. Sounds like smells like smoke. So far Jackson is playing his but off in this contract year

I'm not trying to defend Manning...he looks almost as cooked to me as he does to you...where we mostly differ is whether the rest of the team (mostly the line) can improve and evolve around Manning's deficiencies, as I 1) don't want to waste a #1 defense, 2) am skeptical that the defense will stay intact in the offseason, and 3) don't trust a first year QB (especially one that hasn't really provided many WOW moments anyway) to lead a #1 defense to the playoffs...Trust me, I'm not feeling that optimistic, but I'm not throwing in the towel.

I understand your points but Brock will be a first year starter next season what's the difference. He can still pick Mannings mind if you do it this season

He'll be a starter until Denver cuts their losses and goes elsewhere. Maybe one year as no one worth anything is behind him. And he should have been picking Mannings brain and learning from him the last three years Hop.

[OnlyInUtah]

I'm done arguing Hop. You HATE Manning.

Careful what you wish for though.....it might come true.

[OnlyInUtah]

On a different note....looks like Lamar Odom finally completely self destructed. All reports are a massive overdose.

[Bigmac1979]

Hey Mac look at the film on this and they show both INT's that manning threw last Sunday. Notice the receiver broke to the left where there was no coverage on the first one. Goal line plats most are read plays and if the QB reads one thing and the receiver reads another bad things happen. Peyton even says we have to get on the same page. Looking at this clearly the receiver read the play right and Manning threw into the coverage. The second INT was a good pass just late. He would have made that same pass 2 years ago with not as much air and on time. He never looked the safety off. These are things Manning would do in his sleep 2 years ago. Now he's just living on his rep. And not doing a good job of that.
Andrew Mason http://t.co/ei8U4XHOAE
Kub said that the 3 TE set was very effective. If so why didn't they stay with it. Sounds like smells like smoke. So far Jackson is playing his but off in this contract year

I'm not trying to defend Manning...he looks almost as cooked to me as he does to you...where we mostly differ is whether the rest of the team (mostly the line) can improve and evolve around Manning's deficiencies, as I 1) don't want to waste a #1 defense, 2) am skeptical that the defense will stay intact in the offseason, and 3) don't trust a first year QB (especially one that hasn't really provided many WOW moments anyway) to lead a #1 defense to the playoffs...Trust me, I'm not feeling that optimistic, but I'm not throwing in the towel.

I understand your points but Brock will be a first year starter next season what's the difference. He can still pick Mannings mind if you do it this season

I just don't have the same confidence that Oz will increase our chances of winning a title THIS SEASON...If I did, Manning would already be benched in my mind. If we had the #5 defense instead of the #1...benched.

[CSpringsNSD]

I don't think we have to give up the season to give Oz some real action to see what he can do. Sit manning for the browns and the bears. This team with this defense should be able to beat those teams with or without Manning. If Oz can't perform against those two teams then we know now that he isn't the future. If he performs well against them maybe we look at giving him more opportunities this year.

[Hoppy]

I don't see this defense is staying put next season . Here is a list of Free Agents for next season.

Defensive side Miller,Bruton, Jackson, Trevathan, Wolfe, Bolden, Marshall, McCray, and Austin
Offensive side Mathis, Caldwell, Harris, Osweiler, Hillman, Norwood, Anderson, Polumbus, Fowler, Paradis, and Kyle Williams
Special Teams McManus

I know we don't have Mannings contract Maybe. He hasn't said he would retire. But I think he will. Just seems that he would announce his retirement so he will be acknowledged on his last trip into stadiums. Still there is a lot to pay out to these players if you keep them. all will want more money to stay and is it 16 million to Von if you tag him? I don't know

[Hoppy]

I don't think we have to give up the season to give Oz some real action to see what he can do. Sit manning for the browns and the bears. This team with this defense should be able to beat those teams with or without Manning. If Oz can't perform against those two teams then we know now that he isn't the future. If he performs well against them maybe we look at giving him more opportunities this year.

I can't agree enough at least we know what we have

[Bigmac1979]

I don't think we have to give up the season to give Oz some real action to see what he can do. Sit manning for the browns and the bears. This team with this defense should be able to beat those teams with or without Manning. If Oz can't perform against those two teams then we know now that he isn't the future. If he performs well against them maybe we look at giving him more opportunities this year.

I guess that could work, but with our rookie OLs, Mathis signing so late, and Kubes having to keep shifting the scheme, I'm thinking consistency and stability is needed. Also, sometimes QB controversies can prove distracting...what if Oz looks decent against a middling Haden-less Browns, but then Peyton struggles against a stellar GB team? I'd hate to go into a indecisive QB shuffle like the Texans. I'd rather commit to one or the other for the rest of the season.

[Bigmac1979]

I don't know...maybe the reason we are all arguing so much is that we all realize that Denver is effed this year and we are going to waste a #1 defense...so we are grasping at straws ("Manning will get better!" "Oz will be fix the offense!" "The line will gel!") to stave off despair...Damn, I gotta get my mind off this stuff for awhile...good chatting fellas!

[Hoppy]

I don't think we have to give up the season to give Oz some real action to see what he can do. Sit manning for the browns and the bears. This team with this defense should be able to beat those teams with or without Manning. If Oz can't perform against those two teams then we know now that he isn't the future. If he performs well against them maybe we look at giving him more opportunities this year.

I guess that could work, but with our rookie OLs, Mathis signing so late, and Kubes having to keep shifting the scheme, I'm thinking consistency and stability is needed. Also, sometimes QB controversies can prove distracting...what if Oz looks decent against a middling Haden-less Browns, but then Peyton struggles against a stellar GB team? I'd hate to go into a indecisive QB shuffle like the Texans. I'd rather commit to one or the other for the rest of the season.

There is already talk in that locker room They hear it out here and they talk about it among themselves. If Manning has a bad game again and makes the Browns Look A Like Playoff Team Like he did with the raiders who by the way beat themselves. The cries will spread in that Locker room. Brock had a great practice today tweets are saying.

[Hoppy]

Wednesday's Injury list
https://twitter.com/dmac1043/status/654 ... 28/photo/1

[Bigmac1979]

I don't think we have to give up the season to give Oz some real action to see what he can do. Sit manning for the browns and the bears. This team with this defense should be able to beat those teams with or without Manning. If Oz can't perform against those two teams then we know now that he isn't the future. If he performs well against them maybe we look at giving him more opportunities this year.

I guess that could work, but with our rookie OLs, Mathis signing so late, and Kubes having to keep shifting the scheme, I'm thinking consistency and stability is needed. Also, sometimes QB controversies can prove distracting...what if Oz looks decent against a middling Haden-less Browns, but then Peyton struggles against a stellar GB team? I'd hate to go into a indecisive QB shuffle like the Texans. I'd rather commit to one or the other for the rest of the season.

There is already talk in that locker room They hear it out here and they talk about it among themselves. If Manning has a bad game again and makes the Browns Look A Like Playoff Team Like he did with the raiders who by the way beat themselves. The cries will spread in that Locker room. Brock had a great practice today tweets are saying.

I'll tell you this much...if Kubes sees that Oz is the better QB to run the offense, he has my support. I think Kubes is good evaluator of QBs and knows how to get the most out of them. I just think it likely takes a potential SB victory off the table (which might also be the case with Manning anyway).

[CSpringsNSD]

I don't know, I guess I don't see this team winning the Super Bowl. The defense, yes! But as a team, no. The offense really needs to pick it up, no matter who is behind center. I also figure that sitting Manning for the browns and bears gives him more rest. He is getting older, has taken more hits this year and could use it. If we keep him in there and burn him out we will be playing with Oz in the playoffs anyways.

[OnlyInUtah]

The problem is....we can think anything we want but Kubiak is the coach and he has to decide what he thinks is best for the team......not us. I trust him to make the right call on this. It's his ass on the line ultimately and he knows the situation a hell of a lot better than any of us or some hack sportswriter just trying to get someone to read his article.

[Hoppy]

Troy Renck Mailbox
http://t.co/rJwx0T87mt

[CSpringsNSD]

The problem is....we can think anything we want but Kubiak is the coach and he has to decide what he thinks is best for the team......not us. I trust him to make the right call on this. It's his ass on the line ultimately and he knows the situation a hell of a lot better than any of us or some hack sportswriter just trying to get someone to read his article.

I agree, I trust Kubes a lot more than I ever trusted Fox. I also know that Manning is being watched by Elway as well.

[OnlyInUtah]

The problem is....we can think anything we want but Kubiak is the coach and he has to decide what he thinks is best for the team......not us. I trust him to make the right call on this. It's his ass on the line ultimately and he knows the situation a hell of a lot better than any of us or some hack sportswriter just trying to get someone to read his article.

I agree, I trust Kubes a lot more than I ever trusted Fox. I also know that Manning is being watched by Elway as well.

I think when it's time to pull the plug both Elway and Kubiak will pull the trigger. Elway never has seemed shy about that. It could be after the Browns game if things continue the way they are. I think they know once you play that card there is no going back.

[CSpringsNSD]

The problem is....we can think anything we want but Kubiak is the coach and he has to decide what he thinks is best for the team......not us. I trust him to make the right call on this. It's his ass on the line ultimately and he knows the situation a hell of a lot better than any of us or some hack sportswriter just trying to get someone to read his article.

I agree, I trust Kubes a lot more than I ever trusted Fox. I also know that Manning is being watched by Elway as well.

I think when it's time to pull the plug both Elway and Kubiak will pull the trigger. Elway never has seemed shy about that. It could be after the Browns game if things continue the way they are. I think they know once you play that card there is no going back.

Agreed, it's business for Elway. He did it with Champ. He wants to win.

[Hoppy]

We are trying to run out of the pistol the backs are being meet in the backfield The defense is teeing off on the runner only because he will be the only one who dare to carry the ball. I posted this earlier and it's the one article that tell the true story and not step around the eggshell Named Manning

http://t.co/EVQlsLM46V

under offense the writer gives you his and my belief of what's wrong with this offense. Yes the line has problems I have said this but the QB has to help the line I 've also said that. As I will not ever change my feelings on this and you guys will one day I'm sure I will keep rooting for him but I will be the one you hear screaming Bench the bum when the Broncos start playing good teams B/C we haven't played a good one yet.

In that article, the author says this: "Our running game could be fine. Do you know why it isn't fine? It's running out of the pistol. That's what isn't fine!" He seems to putting the lion's share of blame on the scheme, as if running out of shotgun or pistol without a running QB is the reason our, or anyone's, running game fails. But in the first two games (can't find data since then), Denver gained 3.4 yards per carry from the shotgun formation, but only 2.6 yards from under center...that's almost a yard difference. That result extends to last year, when Denver gained 4.9 yards running out of the gun, but only 3.2 yards from under center (1.7 yards less per carry!!!). In the three games since Denver has gone full Pistol/Gun, they are rushing at 3.7 yards per carry...even if you remove Hillman's 72 yard scamper, the Pistol has the same YPC as Denver had from under center: 2.6.

not sure where you get your numbers but the Vikings game is the only game that the Broncos had a good YPC average. That 6.0 may boost the others and that was the game Hillman had his 72 yard run. What you should be looking at is how many times does Manning get under center. That give the back a nice head start and a chance to make someone miss if they are in the backfield. When you are starting beside or a yard behind the QB you have no speed before you are handed the ball