AFC West Denver Broncos

[OnlyInUtah]

The coaches will figure it out Hop....they and Elway are making the calls on this.

[Bigmac1979]

We are trying to run out of the pistol the backs are being meet in the backfield The defense is teeing off on the runner only because he will be the only one who dare to carry the ball. I posted this earlier and it's the one article that tell the true story and not step around the eggshell Named Manning

http://t.co/EVQlsLM46V

under offense the writer gives you his and my belief of what's wrong with this offense. Yes the line has problems I have said this but the QB has to help the line I 've also said that. As I will not ever change my feelings on this and you guys will one day I'm sure I will keep rooting for him but I will be the one you hear screaming Bench the bum when the Broncos start playing good teams B/C we haven't played a good one yet.

In that article, the author says this: "Our running game could be fine. Do you know why it isn't fine? It's running out of the pistol. That's what isn't fine!" He seems to putting the lion's share of blame on the scheme, as if running out of shotgun or pistol without a running QB is the reason our, or anyone's, running game fails. But in the first two games (can't find data since then), Denver gained 3.4 yards per carry from the shotgun formation, but only 2.6 yards from under center...that's almost a yard difference. That result extends to last year, when Denver gained 4.9 yards running out of the gun, but only 3.2 yards from under center (1.7 yards less per carry!!!). In the three games since Denver has gone full Pistol/Gun, they are rushing at 3.7 yards per carry...even if you remove Hillman's 72 yard scamper, the Pistol has the same YPC as Denver had from under center: 2.6.

not sure where you get your numbers but the Vikings game is the only game that the Broncos had a good YPC average. That 6.0 may boost the others and that was the game Hillman had his 72 yard run. What you should be looking at is how many times does Manning get under center. That give the back a nice head start and a chance to make someone miss if they are in the backfield. When you are starting beside or a yard behind the QB you have no speed before you are handed the ball

I only have data from the first two games (after which time they pretty much went gun/pistol exclusively), but in those two games, runs that started with Manning under center gained 2.6 ypc...in those same two games, runs out of the gun gained 3.4 ypc...last year, those numbers were 4.9 to 3.2 in favor of runs out of the shotgun...I don't know if there has been enough runs from under center to really say definitively that it ain't working for this team, but I think there is enough there to say our running woes aren't just a simple matter of playing the wrong scheme.

[OnlyInUtah]

Unless Kubiak and Company know something different about the Broncos offensive woes, my guess is this Cleveland game will be pivotal in deciding which direction we go with after the bye week.

One thing sticks out in my mind.... the Broncos haven't tried very hard to sign Oz beyond this year. If he's the teams future wouldn't one think they'd have locked him up by now or tried real hard to do so? Elway may know something we don't.

[Hoppy]

We are trying to run out of the pistol the backs are being meet in the backfield The defense is teeing off on the runner only because he will be the only one who dare to carry the ball. I posted this earlier and it's the one article that tell the true story and not step around the eggshell Named Manning

http://t.co/EVQlsLM46V

under offense the writer gives you his and my belief of what's wrong with this offense. Yes the line has problems I have said this but the QB has to help the line I 've also said that. As I will not ever change my feelings on this and you guys will one day I'm sure I will keep rooting for him but I will be the one you hear screaming Bench the bum when the Broncos start playing good teams B/C we haven't played a good one yet.

In that article, the author says this: "Our running game could be fine. Do you know why it isn't fine? It's running out of the pistol. That's what isn't fine!" He seems to putting the lion's share of blame on the scheme, as if running out of shotgun or pistol without a running QB is the reason our, or anyone's, running game fails. But in the first two games (can't find data since then), Denver gained 3.4 yards per carry from the shotgun formation, but only 2.6 yards from under center...that's almost a yard difference. That result extends to last year, when Denver gained 4.9 yards running out of the gun, but only 3.2 yards from under center (1.7 yards less per carry!!!). In the three games since Denver has gone full Pistol/Gun, they are rushing at 3.7 yards per carry...even if you remove Hillman's 72 yard scamper, the Pistol has the same YPC as Denver had from under center: 2.6.

not sure where you get your numbers but the Vikings game is the only game that the Broncos had a good YPC average. That 6.0 may boost the others and that was the game Hillman had his 72 yard run. What you should be looking at is how many times does Manning get under center. That give the back a nice head start and a chance to make someone miss if they are in the backfield. When you are starting beside or a yard behind the QB you have no speed before you are handed the ball

I only have data from the first two games (after which time they pretty much went gun/pistol exclusively), but in those two games, runs that started with Manning under center gained 2.6 ypc...in those same two games, runs out of the gun gained 3.4 ypc...last year, those numbers were 4.9 to 3.2 in favor of runs out of the shotgun...I don't know if there has been enough runs from under center to really say definitively that it ain't working for this team, but I think there is enough there to say our running woes aren't just a simple matter of playing the wrong scheme.

I look back at the years that we had Peyton's pistol in play. 2012 was the first year that we were 30th in the NFL
we were 15th in 2013 That was knowshow's contract year he had a good season best in his career. 2014 we were 30th until the scheme changed and the team used an extra tackle and sometimes an extra TE. this year we are 30th again. We can not run the football out of the pistol if you don't have a mobile QB. There has to be someone else in the backfield to keep the defense guessing. I guess we just have to keep a back in his contract year oh I forgot we have 2 back there now Anderson and Hillman

[Hoppy]

Unless Kubiak and Company know something different about the Broncos offensive woes, my guess is this Cleveland game will be pivotal in deciding which direction we go with after the bye week.

One thing sticks out in my mind.... the Broncos haven't tried very hard to sign Oz beyond this year. If he's the teams future wouldn't one think they'd have locked him up by now or tried real hard to do so? Elway may know something we don't.

I think John likes him well enough but is he Kubiaks' first choice would be my question. Elway has kept him around all this time because he was his QB from the beginning. You don't just give up on a high pick QB without giving him a chance to play. You want to see if he can lead this team . some time this season we will see Brock start. If not just to rest Manning. Once we clinch a playoff spot if we clinch. If not sooner.

[Hoppy]

Looking at the browns: Broncos TV
http://t.co/L3mf4dhqJd

[Bigmac1979]

We are trying to run out of the pistol the backs are being meet in the backfield The defense is teeing off on the runner only because he will be the only one who dare to carry the ball. I posted this earlier and it's the one article that tell the true story and not step around the eggshell Named Manning

http://t.co/EVQlsLM46V

under offense the writer gives you his and my belief of what's wrong with this offense. Yes the line has problems I have said this but the QB has to help the line I 've also said that. As I will not ever change my feelings on this and you guys will one day I'm sure I will keep rooting for him but I will be the one you hear screaming Bench the bum when the Broncos start playing good teams B/C we haven't played a good one yet.

In that article, the author says this: "Our running game could be fine. Do you know why it isn't fine? It's running out of the pistol. That's what isn't fine!" He seems to putting the lion's share of blame on the scheme, as if running out of shotgun or pistol without a running QB is the reason our, or anyone's, running game fails. But in the first two games (can't find data since then), Denver gained 3.4 yards per carry from the shotgun formation, but only 2.6 yards from under center...that's almost a yard difference. That result extends to last year, when Denver gained 4.9 yards running out of the gun, but only 3.2 yards from under center (1.7 yards less per carry!!!). In the three games since Denver has gone full Pistol/Gun, they are rushing at 3.7 yards per carry...even if you remove Hillman's 72 yard scamper, the Pistol has the same YPC as Denver had from under center: 2.6.

not sure where you get your numbers but the Vikings game is the only game that the Broncos had a good YPC average. That 6.0 may boost the others and that was the game Hillman had his 72 yard run. What you should be looking at is how many times does Manning get under center. That give the back a nice head start and a chance to make someone miss if they are in the backfield. When you are starting beside or a yard behind the QB you have no speed before you are handed the ball

I only have data from the first two games (after which time they pretty much went gun/pistol exclusively), but in those two games, runs that started with Manning under center gained 2.6 ypc...in those same two games, runs out of the gun gained 3.4 ypc...last year, those numbers were 4.9 to 3.2 in favor of runs out of the shotgun...I don't know if there has been enough runs from under center to really say definitively that it ain't working for this team, but I think there is enough there to say our running woes aren't just a simple matter of playing the wrong scheme.

I look back at the years that we had Peyton's pistol in play. 2012 was the first year that we were 30th in the NFL
we were 15th in 2013 That was knowshow's contract year he had a good season best in his career. 2014 we were 30th until the scheme changed and the team used an extra tackle and sometimes an extra TE. this year we are 30th again. We can not run the football out of the pistol if you don't have a mobile QB. There has to be someone else in the backfield to keep the defense guessing. I guess we just have to keep a back in his contract year oh I forgot we have 2 back there now Anderson and Hillman

Hop, my whole point, and I think the numbers back this up, is that we aren't running any better when Manning is under center. If anything, that's our least successful running formation this year and last...compared to other teams (even ones with crappy QBs) our running game is floundering in all formations, but it isn't worse in pistol. Blame the scheme if you like, but I'm not seeing the evidence.

[OnlyInUtah]

Unless Kubiak and Company know something different about the Broncos offensive woes, my guess is this Cleveland game will be pivotal in deciding which direction we go with after the bye week.

One thing sticks out in my mind.... the Broncos haven't tried very hard to sign Oz beyond this year. If he's the teams future wouldn't one think they'd have locked him up by now or tried real hard to do so? Elway may know something we don't.

I think John likes him well enough but is he Kubiaks' first choice would be my question. Elway has kept him around all this time because he was his QB from the beginning. You don't just give up on a high pick QB without giving him a chance to play. You want to see if he can lead this team . some time this season we will see Brock start. If not just to rest Manning. Once we clinch a playoff spot if we clinch. If not sooner.

But he's still not getting any contract extension love. That has to say something as Elway doles out the contracts.

[Hoppy]

Unless Kubiak and Company know something different about the Broncos offensive woes, my guess is this Cleveland game will be pivotal in deciding which direction we go with after the bye week.

One thing sticks out in my mind.... the Broncos haven't tried very hard to sign Oz beyond this year. If he's the teams future wouldn't one think they'd have locked him up by now or tried real hard to do so? Elway may know something we don't.

I think John likes him well enough but is he Kubiaks' first choice would be my question. Elway has kept him around all this time because he was his QB from the beginning. You don't just give up on a high pick QB without giving him a chance to play. You want to see if he can lead this team . some time this season we will see Brock start. If not just to rest Manning. Once we clinch a playoff spot if we clinch. If not sooner.

But he's still not getting any contract extension love. That has to say something as Elway doles out the contracts.

Horse tracks talks about that http://t.co/MJwRBjQ3dX I'm note so sure but the way it reads Brees will be a free agent next season. If that's true do we go after him? RG 3 or any other FA QB. I think they are waiting to see If Brock is worth it Like us they just don't know. Practice isn't like games

[OnlyInUtah]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2579 ... in-trouble

[OnlyInUtah]

The Browns are last against the run. If we can't run this week we really suck....lol.

[OnlyInUtah]

I wouldn't go after an old Brees and I wouldn't touch RG3 with a ten foot pole right now.

[Hoppy]

One last time then I finished with the line In the SB against the Hawks We didn't even run a play with Manning under center. Not sure if everyone remembers me complaining about that for months after the game Or not but My complaint hasn't changed over the years. This season has just started and Manning being under center to start a play is hardly seen. In the last 2 seasons he only came from under center 28% of the time Last season under Kubiak the Ravens ran the ball from under center 78% of the time. What the difference? Manning can't get back fast enough ?I don't know. I do know that Running Backs would rather run with a head of speed before getting the ball than just standing there receiving the handoff. I got these %'s from an article I posted before the season got started By Andrew Mason. I was excited about the new offense then and was saying that I didn't think Manning was a good fit for the WC offense of Kubiak. Seems like I was right. Just no one else knows it yet

[Hoppy]

I wouldn't go after an old Brees and I wouldn't touch RG3 with a ten foot pole right now.

I wouldn't either. Just giving you some of what was talked about in the article. We have one old QB I wouldn't get rid of one and bring in another. That being said I think Brock is the man who will be leading the Broncos next season. Or Kub Goes and get one of his old sorry QB's from down in Houston . The article said some smart things the draft part was good just too many picks.

[Hoppy]

Ware didn't practice again today Not sure if he will play. Kubiak said if he doesn't play Shaq would get the start. Coach said he will decide tomorrow if he brings up Bibbs. I hope he gives the kid a chance. Smoky called that right last season Bibbs is looking to be the best back on the team.

[OnlyInUtah]

One last time then I finished with the line In the SB against the Hawks We didn't even run a play with Manning under center. Not sure if everyone remembers me complaining about that for months after the game Or not but My complaint hasn't changed over the years. This season has just started and Manning being under center to start a play is hardly seen. In the last 2 seasons he only came from under center 28% of the time Last season under Kubiak the Ravens ran the ball from under center 78% of the time. What the difference? Manning can't get back fast enough ?I don't know. I do know that Running Backs would rather run with a head of speed before getting the ball than just standing there receiving the handoff. I got these %'s from an article I posted before the season got started By Andrew Mason. I was excited about the new offense then and was saying that I didn't think Manning was a good fit for the WC offense of Kubiak. Seems like I was right. Just no one else knows it yet

This makeshift offensive line isn't good for Kubiak's system either. Changing the system won't make them superstars. This line needs a major upgrade next season.

[OnlyInUtah]

Ware didn't practice again today Not sure if he will play. Kubiak said if he doesn't play Shaq would get the start. Coach said he will decide tomorrow if he brings up Bibbs. I hope he gives the kid a chance. Smoky called that right last season Bibbs is looking to be the best back on the team.

I've been a Bibbs fan all along too if you remember.

[Hoppy]

Manning stayed after working with Bibbs and Sanders DT was there also but he just snapping he didn't work today
Talib did not practice today

[IckyIPA]

Got to hand it to you Utah, even when we all lose, you lose the least. The entire pick'em league had Atlanta last night. We all put some pretty hefty points on them, SID had 14, I had 13, Utah only hung a 7 on them, and lost less than the rest.Take a bow Captain Yorkie

[OnlyInUtah]

Got to hand it to you Utah, even when we all lose, you lose the least. The entire pick'em league had Atlanta last night. We all put some pretty hefty points on them, SID had 14, I had 13, Utah only hung a 7 on them, and lost less than the rest.Take a bow Captain Yorkie

I'd take a bow if I'd have picked the Saints...lol. I'm worried in all my ffl' as this week is a tough one.

[StandardIssueDenver]

Got to hand it to you Utah, even when we all lose, you lose the least. The entire pick'em league had Atlanta last night. We all put some pretty hefty points on them, SID had 14, I had 13, Utah only hung a 7 on them, and lost less than the rest.Take a bow Captain Yorkie

I'd take a bow if I'd have picked the Saints...lol. I'm worried in all my ffl' as this week is a tough one.

I am glad I don't live in Vegas. I always have a lock hunch and I think I am 1 for 5 thus far.

[kicks]

I am starting to lean Hop's way a little. Manning better show something soon. He's been awful this season and most of last season. We are winning despite him because of our defense. It was the quad injury last year that did him in for that season. Who told him to block?? Anyhow, I thought it was just learning the new system but he's had 5 games and isn't improving. Yes, the O line is horrible and I shudder to think about putting Oz in but Manning won't beat a great team. The defense might. If he doesn't get his proverbial "shit" together soon, I don't know what we should do. It sucks to have such a great defense that most likely will not be intact next year and squander it. I honestly think Elway could play better than Manning at this point. Can he suit up?

We better look spectacular against the Browns. Maybe a butt kicking against an inferior team is what the doctor will order. Just my two cents. I am also not against putting Oz in and seeing what he can do if we build a good lead. That might not happen this season though. A good lead. Unfathomable a few years back.

With that said. Go Broncos!!

[Hoppy]

TY and Ware out for Sunday
http://t.co/NEZmQSpwE1

[CSpringsNSD]

Well, it's decided, we will get to the divisional round and fall to the Patriots there whether we start Oz or Manning from this point forward. Madden has spoken

http://www.denverpost.com/knowthis/ci_2 ... den-nfl-16

In all seriousness though, that's about what I imagine anyways if our offense can't figure something out.

[OnlyInUtah]

Well, it's decided, we will get to the divisional round and fall to the Patriots there whether we start Oz or Manning from this point forward. Madden has spoken

http://www.denverpost.com/knowthis/ci_2 ... den-nfl-16

In all seriousness though, that's about what I imagine anyways if our offense can't figure something out.

Oz might make the offense better....or not. I'm not an Oz fan but if they put him in I trust the coaches. In any event....if the offensive line doesn't get any better it's all for naught anyway.

[OnlyInUtah]

And the tight ends? They aren't receivers and can't block anybody...lol. And we keep collecting more shitty ones.

[CSpringsNSD]

And the tight ends? They aren't receivers and can't block anybody...lol. And we keep collecting more shitty ones.

Yeah, I feel like in some ways we are replacing bandaids with more bandaids. The TEs aren't great, the line is worse, our running backs are below average, I don't know how they would produce with a better line. We have great receivers and a really good brain behind center. You can really tell where the bosses spent their time. The defense has few, if any holes in it. I'm not expecting to have a number 1 offense and defense, but I would be really happy with a number 1 D and a mid range offense. Right now the offense is almost bottom of the barrel.

[OnlyInUtah]

And the tight ends? They aren't receivers and can't block anybody...lol. And we keep collecting more shitty ones.

Yeah, I feel like in some ways we are replacing bandaids with more bandaids. The TEs aren't great, the line is worse, our running backs are below average, I don't know how they would produce with a better line. We have great receivers and a really good brain behind center. You can really tell where the bosses spent their time. The defense has few, if any holes in it. I'm not expecting to have a number 1 offense and defense, but I would be really happy with a number 1 D and a mid range offense. Right now the offense is almost bottom of the barrel.

Yep. I think they need to bring up Bibbs. What do we have to lose. He might lite a spark.

The Browns have the 32nd defense against the run. If we can't run on them we can't run on anybody.....pistol, shotgun, or under center.

[OnlyInUtah]

We've spent our money on the defense and Elway has done a splendid job. We've let several positions on the offense suffer though. Elway has a mixed bag there.

[CSpringsNSD]

And the tight ends? They aren't receivers and can't block anybody...lol. And we keep collecting more shitty ones.

Yeah, I feel like in some ways we are replacing bandaids with more bandaids. The TEs aren't great, the line is worse, our running backs are below average, I don't know how they would produce with a better line. We have great receivers and a really good brain behind center. You can really tell where the bosses spent their time. The defense has few, if any holes in it. I'm not expecting to have a number 1 offense and defense, but I would be really happy with a number 1 D and a mid range offense. Right now the offense is almost bottom of the barrel.

Yep. I think they need to bring up Bibbs. What do we have to lose. He might lite a spark.

The Browns have the 32nd defense against the run. If we can't run on them we can't run on anybody.....pistol, shotgun, or under center.

Our problems running come from many areas though, the RBs aren't playing great, the line can't block so the RBs get hit behind the line, defenders know manning isn't much of a deep threat so they stack the line to defend the short passes and crowd the running lanes at the same time. All these things feed off each other. I think if the line can gel more then we have a chance, everything else can improve. If the line can't get it together though this is going to be a long year and another early exit from the playoffs.